Episode 10: The Secret Weapon to Being an Introvert feat. Stephen Tessitore

How well do you know yourself? Are you an Introvert/Extrovert or a mix of both (Ambivert)? Stephen offers such vulnerable insight into his self-discovery and what he has learned along the way. His focus on ‘seeking to understand’ self and others and their preferences around engagement, creation process and energy replenishment is such an important and impactful aha moment everyone can explore!

Angela McCourt 0:00
Let's get ready for some serious shift. This is a podcast shifting Inside Out hosted by your quantum shifter Angela McCourt, we are diving into ways to empower and enable a quantum shift. Inspiring topics hacks and guest speakers take us on a journey around authenticity, challenging status quo, personal power and living a purpose filled life.

In this episode Stephen Tessitore joins me to talk about introverts, and how his journey of self discovery led him to understanding himself better, as well as his preferences. The other piece he discovered was not to use it as an excuse, so to say, but to better understand those preferences to use them as a secret weapon. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this episode. As you listen. You can find me on LinkedIn @AngiebeltzMcCourt, Instagram @Angie_McCourt, or on Twitter @McCourtAngie. So without further ado, let's hear from Steven.

Steven, welcome to shifting inside out. I'm so grateful to have you on this episode. To get started. Why don't you introduce yourself?

Stephen Tessitore 1:28
Thanks, Angie. I am Stephen test Satori. I currently work at Cisco. Angie, you and I have a history of working together which is a huge part of of my current career path. I work in marketing now. And I lead the commercial marketing business. And then I just recently took the the partner business as well. So I've been at Cisco for about five years. I've got three kids. I've been married for 15 years. Yeah, I love to cook I love to write I love to do all the all the things so pumped to be here with you.

Angela McCourt 2:05
Love it. And I have tried some of your recipes, including your chicken tacos. Oh my gosh, Steven is an awesome cook because his wife shares the recipes and I know they came from you. The creator in the kitchen, right?

Stephen Tessitore 2:19
That's so funny because my recipes don't always translate well to paper because I just I look and I see that it needs more things and I forget to capture that. So good luck to you for

Angela McCourt 2:30
your flank steak tacos. Oh, those are good. Yes. chicken tinga flake steak. Very good. All right, well, let's let the audience get to know you a little bit more. They got they got that out of you so far. So what is your morning ritual or routine?

Stephen Tessitore 2:48
Yeah, I didn't have one until, until probably, you know, five years ago. I was like, What's a morning ritual, I figured it was just you know, survival, right in the morning when you have when you have little kids. But it always has something to do with breaking a sweat, I'll have to do that. But if I don't, it really does change the entire day. So So I don't think that's necessarily like you have to do a certain thing. I think it's just more like get moving, you know, activate your, your body, it really tends to activate your mind and in these are things that really helped me you know, transition from like sleep into into the day. The other thing is, I usually find that, that that's the time that I read. And so I'm either reading it in the morning or at night, those are the two times that I will find windows. And then if I can I'm writing in a in a journal, but I would say that I'm most consistently moving my body in in reading something in the morning, even if it's for 10 minutes doesn't matter. I have a you know, a couple different things. I think we'll talk about that later. But I have a couple different things that I'm reading right now that I that I love. So that I think those are the critical parts that have to do things are like okay, get the kids up and get them to school. So the thing, a part of it as well.

Angela McCourt 4:10
Very good. All right at the end, remember a couple of those things that you're very interested in and reading and maybe you can recommend those to the audience. That would be awesome. Sure. So how do you renew your energy?

Stephen Tessitore 4:22
Yes. So it it's always having the choice to do something renews my energy because so much of the day gets thrown at at us right at me, I'll speak for myself so much of the day gets thrown at me it's being able to make the choice to whether that's like I said, to work out or whether it's at the end of the day, if I make the choice to be able to watch a show on TV which probably ties into the guilty pleasure. That that is really renewing because it's like okay, this is the decision that I made, you know for myself and It's not related to my kids, and it's not related to even my wife or my partner. It's just for me. So it's, it's having the choice to do something. And I think it can be any number of things.

Angela McCourt 5:12
Mm hmm. I love that. I think that's so rare to hear that. But that is so important, I think, to everyone to be able to have that choice and it does renew you. And it does help you to manage your energy and your priorities better too. And it probably having that mindset gets you out of the momentum of Go, go go doo doo doo, yes, you could stop and say, This is what I'm going to be or do right now. Yeah, I'm

Stephen Tessitore 5:37
gonna do this. It's some sort of a of, it's not even a reward. It's just a part of like, you're taking back some of the control. Because when you over commit yourself, like we all do that when you over commit yourself, and whether it's kids or no kids or whatever, you know, you find that you're that you're just not, you're just not making as many of your own choices. So when you do that, you know, it's like, okay, this is just for me now. And that's okay. And I have to be able to let that happen to

Angela McCourt 6:03
Yes. And no guilt either. So speaking of guilt, what is your guilty pleasure?

Stephen Tessitore 6:11
Yeah, you just said it, though. It's funny, because you said no guilt, because I thought about it. I'm like, I don't feel guilty about it. Because I have like, in the past, like, I would, I would watch like, if, if something else was happening, I feel like I have to be go and be involved in it, right? It's like, oh, well, you know, something's happening outside or, you know, or one of the kids is doing something I got over that when I figured some of the stuff out, which is, you know, that you have to be able to take pleasure in life, you have to be able to take some of it, you know, every day. And so if I have to really answer the question, my guilty pleasure, right now is is Yellowstone the show and it's a peacock app, I freakin love the show. And I'll watch it by myself. And I'll have you know, old fashion and that's probably the the peak of Steven on Steven time.

Angela McCourt 7:03
That is so nice. You actually get into character. And I bet you make a damn good old fashioned. That's

Unknown Speaker 7:12
a good, it's a good.

Angela McCourt 7:15
Very good. Well, I you know, I have been really excited about ever since I started this podcast and planning out like what topics and people I wanted to invite, you are always at the top of the list. And the reason is, is because a conversation you and I had about now it's coming up on probably eight years ago, that really had a profound impact on my life, and led me down a path of trying to bring awareness I wrote blogs on this and whatnot. And it's the chapter 23 In my book, on embracing your preferences has to do with the introvert extrovert ambivert preference that every one of us slide along the scale, or we really sit strongly and one end or the other introvert or extrovert. And so I was very excited to bring you on. Because, you know, this is something that I think for both of us has been so not just impactful for us individually, but that we've been able to share with others that made a big difference for them. And once we understand our own preferences, it really helps us to be able to manage our energy to be able to set healthy boundaries. And also just to accept this is who I am, and be able to share that with others and then also to be able to respect others for their preferences and their boundaries and whatnot that they said as well. So I really wanted to bring you on to share your story and kind of your journey along this self discovery path. And then also what findings you've had, because I think this will be really interesting for the audience. And I really hope everybody gets a lot out of this. So why don't you start with your journey, like when you first started to realize this? Yeah, yeah. And what are you?

Stephen Tessitore 9:07
Yeah, exactly. What what what are any of it? Yeah, no, I it's, it's funny, because the more I learned about it, the more clingy sometimes it feels, because I start to discover, you know, nuances in my own personality. And I'm like, well, that's not consistent with, you know, my INFJ we know my letters and all that, you know, the things that you and I have talked about before, but, you know, when I started my career, so I started, I started really early, I started right out of high school, and I was in this like this sales job. And it was like a make, you know, 75 outbound calls a day when people used to still pick up their phone, right, which is not that long ago, but it you know, a little a little bit ago, and I got thrust into this sort of role of like when you're in an environment like that, if any of your audience has seen like boiler room or Wall Street or what of Wall Street, like, you can compare what I was doing in my first job to something like that, get on the phone, be on the phone, yell loud things into phones all day, right? And you start to develop this sort of persona. And when you're, when you're 18, and you're developing this professional persona, surrounded by that, you start to take that on, and you start to say, well, this is how I'm going to be successful, right, I'm going to be successful, because I'm going to be the best talker. And I'm gonna be the best seller, and I'm going to make the most phone calls, I'm going to, you know, and, and little did I know, I'm surrounded by highly insecure people who are going through the exact same sort of identity crisis that I'm feeling at 18, except they're, you know, they're in their 30s, or, you know, however old they were. So really interesting way to start a career. And what I did is I carried that with me, you know, in through my experience, when you and I would eventually work together, which is that you show up like real big in those moments, and you can talk to anybody, and you're not afraid of anybody and intimidation is like, you know, the blood in the water and this like, sort of toxic extrovert, right, like, like, we've talked about extroverts, it's not a bad thing. But sort of adopting these personalities, and in a lot of ways really being a fraud. Right? Like, like, really, when you think about it, when you step back? What was the reason that you were doing that? What was the reason that you acted that way? It really comes from a place of insecurity, right. And so when I was in my mid 20s, and in maybe my late 20s, when we had the conversation that you're referencing, and I was telling you before, I could actually remember it like I could, I could remember exactly where we were at, we were traveling for work, and we and we talked about this, it was when I was first starting to say in value, you know, kind of looking inward and saying, Who who are you Not? Not? Who are you supposed to be? Not? Not? Who makes you most successful? Not? Who gets you promoted? Because those are all things that I had used in the past to get to those places. But who are you in? And how can you start to honor that person, instead of push that person away. Because we, you know, as introverts or ambiverts, or wherever you want to put us, you know, kind of in that conversation. We look at that sometimes as a weakness, and we look at it and we say that, that certainly can't be the person who's going to be this corporate success. Because that person never doesn't speak enough or doesn't know when to speak or, you know, feels like they don't have the confidence to speak. So we look at that, and we sort of push it away instead of what we should be doing, which is, which is really embracing, you know, every every one of those great things about about the quality.

Angela McCourt 13:03
Yeah, and so when you started down this path, discovering because I feel and chapter one of my book is, is why am I in the box, I think when especially when we start in our careers, and this can even go back into, you know, childhood to is it's so much easier to control people when they're all similar, you know, so we try to we try to form them into cookie cutter, you know, employees, but so it goes both ways. We allow it because we want to belong, and we want to be successful. But you know, obviously, there's this natural kind of advantage to companies and corporations to have everybody in the box. And but I think from a your Revelation, where you shifted from the expectation at self and others of needing to be a certain way to wait a minute, who am I and how can I be myself in this same environment? Like, how did that start to translate and transform for you?

Stephen Tessitore 14:05
Yeah, I think you, I think at a certain point, you get forced to take some breaths. And, you know, whether it's that you, maybe you look at your career, this was probably more true for me, you look at your career, and you say, Okay, I like what I'm doing. I like the people that I'm working with, but I'm not sure if I've actually ever been myself with those people. And I love these people like genuine love and affection for you know, for these people that I work with. So you, you kind of get to this place where you were just kind of fed up with it. Like you're like, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna do that. I'm not I'm not going to make that the thing that they that they see because I don't even know if they like the real me. You know, it's kind of hard to hear myself say right, but, but that's I think that's the beginning is that there's a lot of self discovery that you have to do in and for anybody who listens that's in their early 20s You need to be doing that now, like, don't zoom past that, like there's, there's, I'm sure we can give resources out and you know, the free tests that are out there, like, start to start to do that right now because you just keyed in on something that was really important is, for me at least is that you carry these things with you, from a child, you carry the propensity to, to maybe let people shape you or maybe to be somebody who's a, you know, a great listener, because they have to be, or to be somebody that doesn't want to cause trouble for their parents, because they saw their siblings do that, or, you know, like you, you get trapped in these in these boxes, and you tend to carry that forward. And if it's never addressed, you will carry it forward into your professional career, you will carry that insecurity and that feelings of inadequacy and all these lies that you tell yourself, you will carry that with you so and that the passion is happening for me right now, right? Because this is a this is a really, this is a My heart is that, you know, you're you're at that age, it's it don't wait. You know, don't wait until you're in your late 20s. And you've made a bunch of career decisions based on somebody who you really not, you know, start right now.

Angela McCourt 16:12
Yeah, and I think too, you know, on the path to authenticity in the workplace, specifically. It's, it's also, it's also a journey that so many people are going to have to take. So I think you're sharing, you know, just tear down the walls. And, you know, really be open and vulnerable to what's inside of you, is that great process that I think a lot of people have the opportunity to go through and to really bring themselves in, I know you say probably my late 20s, early 30s that I had my work personality, and I have my home personality. I seriously remember, and I'm almost 50 I remember saying that I remember telling people that and I'm like, But why, why and why was it just accepted? Why did I just accept it at the time? Now, of course, a few years later, I finally broke through that started my, you know, true, like, Okay, I'm just gonna be me, you know, I just want to be me everywhere. Because it's too exhausting to be two different people.

Stephen Tessitore 17:16
That's right. At the end of the day, you're you're, you're you're feeling the pain of carrying that, you know, you're in, you're like, Well, I don't like my job. And maybe that's not it, maybe it's just that you have never brought your actual self to that place before.

Angela McCourt 17:32
Exactly right.

Stephen Tessitore 17:33
And you're tired from that, you know, and actually, like, I you know, it's funny, because I think we might have even had a conversation these, these stay with me, you know, these types of conversations, because I, you know, it matters a lot to me. And I think I can actually remember you saying something like that to me, you know, during the course of us working together, and I'm not trying to flip this on you. But like what, like, what made you be able to put it to the side, like what made you say, like, eff it like, this isn't worth it? And because at that time, I can imagine you saying that you were a VP at the company or whatever you were, you know, it's not like you're, you know, you're not working for someone else. And like, like, what helped you do it?

Angela McCourt 18:10
Yeah, I think it was, it was it was pretty much before I went down that path, it was probably more so the I would say, You know what it was it was just finally recognizing and realizing that wait a minute, this what how did I get trapped in this box? Why did I allow it, you know, and then you know, just basically, when I want to say it was when I took over my in my director role, when I took that business unit over, I had all kinds of different personalities on that team. And it was a really amazing, very strong team. But there was a lot of work we had to do. And I felt like you know, you can't build trust with people unless you're coming at your full self and your authentic self. And I think two at the time, very strong personality. So it was, you know, alright, well let's, you know, show appreciation for what they bring to the table. And let's, you know, be able to support them in their own way. Well, a lot of people you know, when when you're in a, we're in a mode of of experimentation a lot. And when you're in that mode, I think it helps because if you are supportive of others in their journey to experiment, fail experiment fail experience, okay? It's okay, it's a good thing because, you know, we were able to jump and not just take steps to making improvements that it made a big difference but if I expected them to show up their authentic self and be in that way of of experiment and fail, experiment, fail it bring your ideas to the table, don't hold back. Don't just package things up in a pretty little you know, perfect bow let's just get to the meat of it. You know, let's get down and dirty with it. But if the if I if I don't show up that way, I can't expect them to show up that way. And so I think that was this natural window, almost where it allowed me to really make that shift in myself. And that, you know, I look back at that experience now in that role I had for almost three years before I went into the VP role, leading the Cisco unit, that I think that was my big turning point. And it was a combination of things. It was me finally saying, I got to the age, I think, where was starting not to matter as much. And I recognized it like, wait a minute, this is this isn't right. Why am I saying that? I have two personalities, and then also the window to be able to do this with my team and be there with them on a regular basis. It was a combination of things. Yeah. And it was definitely my early 30s, early to mid 30s, when this took place.

Stephen Tessitore 20:55
Yeah, it's interesting, because it always, it seems that I was asked the question, because it seems like it's a combination of, of, because creativity is is also is always something that sort of sparks, you know, for people. And there's like a saying that creativity is the enemy of complacency. And I'm a big believer in that, because you see people that get really complacent. They're just not interested, right. There's not, there's not that sort of Spark. And, and I think it's like a combination of creativity and vulnerability where you get to this place, and you're like when I'm finally able to be vulnerable, that that it creates a new environment. For me, I bring a different part of myself to the table. And there's a lot of great conversations on this out there too. But yeah, I was curious, because it I've felt a lot of the same things. It's like the, when you do let that that wall come down, and that personality wall that you that you create, you let that come down. It sort of changes everything, and it changes everything for your team too. So I don't know if you want to go into leadership and how this impacts leadership, but it's, it's it's huge.

Angela McCourt 21:58
Yeah, I think that's a good, that's a good thing, actually. Because I think just between simple educating, but then how do you leverage and how do you give space and safe space for both, and I talk about this in my book, too, like, the more people understand each other, the better leaders can actually create that space for their teams. And oh, by the way, guess what, they will bring even greater things to the table, because they feel respected, they have the right environment, they have the right dynamic, it's not everybody's being forced to collaborate with each other 24/7, because not everybody wants to do that a lot of us create in our heads, but understanding that and then respecting that, and then holding space for that, but also for the extrovert to make sure that they have a platform to share their ideas. So they have that, you know, kind of ability and space to be able to bring what they want to the table as well. And I think from a leadership perspective, this is huge. And this is a big breakthrough that people can have in how they lead their teams in an authentic way as well. So what are your thoughts on that?

Stephen Tessitore 23:02
Yeah, it's, it's always, like, it's always akin to parenting for me, how you, you know, you look at each of your children and you know so much about them in in, you will treat them different, well, at least you should treat them differently as they as they grow up. And you can tell which one responds differently to, you know, to which type of maybe a discipline or just communication or whatever the thing is, but as a, as a leader, you know, a breakthrough for me was being comfortable with a lot of the things that you just, you just talked about, which is you don't have to be this, like this, this, I hate to say old school, but I'll just say it right, you don't have to be this like old school leader that sits, you know, in the, in the leadership seat all the time. And in fact, that's, that's not where leadership is going. Anyway, that's not what people want. It's not how they want to be, that's those like a manager, right? It's like, you know, you get like a manager who, you know, is really task oriented. And it's interesting, I put this sort of separation between myself in my team and I think that there's a balance here because I do think that some separation is okay it's good and it's healthy because it defines the role but but you get to bring yourself as well and that's what your team wants and and it's funny because you you do this thing as a way to hide your flaws from your team you put these these barriers up as a way to hide your flaws and they already know all your flaws anyway. Yeah. There's no way I could hide all my flaws because they come out all the time. So the the, the need to do that it's another way that you're expending energy that's that's not that's not benefiting you at all. So I think to come back to it, it's like okay, first let the wall down, right. Being respectful It is great. And it's something that we we strive for, and we get, you know, that that comes with, you know, that comes with caring for people, it comes for doing the work, it comes from really showing up. But then once you do that, you know, getting to know your team. And I'll give a lot of credit to Cisco we have, we have a tool that we use, and it's, it's called Team space. And it's, it's has a lot of the components of the personality test built into it. And it starts with a test, and then it tells you, okay, your Stimulator, your provider, your, you know, I have different designations, when you look at each person on the team, you know, understanding what those buttons are for them. And then of course, I lay around like the actual, like introvert extrovert test with my team, because I, I find so much value in it. But when you start to understand those things, it really changes the conversations that you can have with your team. And it changes the level of understanding just as if it would, with a child, right, where you're looking at the things they're doing, the behaviors that they're displaying, and you want to put them in a position that they can succeed the most. And that they can continue to use all those, all those strengths that they have, which is what you find out, you know, when you really ask the right question. So I think that's kind of a breakthrough moment for me as as a leader is that no, we can go there. And that's okay. And in fact, it's going to improve the performance is going to improve the relationships that happiness, people don't want to leave the team, you know, when when they feel seen like that. So big one,

Angela McCourt 26:33
yeah, that that's really important, too, I think about, you know, the happiness factor. And I think you and I did have a conversation before one of the things actually do references in my book as well, because it was so profound to me is different disk, the DIFC test that has a natural state and kind of always called like the home in the work environment, your adaptive state, your natural state, and where at different age groups or time and career groups would have either variance between the two or equal. And what I found is once you hit 40, you know, give a crap what other people think. So you're just gonna, you're gonna have decision styles very similar. But when you're really starting to try to build a career, you are so afraid to make a mistake. And you're also so afraid that, you know, to look bad, right, so whatever that means, in your world humiliated, embarrassed, and looking bad, you know, coming up with a bad decision, or a bad idea, that that holds you back. So you know, when I think about, you know, all of these kinds of positions that we can put our teams in, that we can be in ourselves, you know, throughout our career, and throughout the span of the career, the happiness factor really comes down to showing up as you and a lot of a lot of career changes I see happen in the mid to late 30s Are people are like, Oh, I don't like my boss anymore. I don't like my job, I need to change, I need to change or just like I need to change. But in reality, it's because they're not happy because they're not showing up as themselves. And it's my theory, so, but I really feel it's something that can be avoided, it can be avoided, because we, like you said, work back earlier in the 20s earlier in career, to really just show up authentically from the get go. And you don't ever have to. And by the way, when a hiring manager hires you, they're hiring you for who you are, you don't need to change to then conform, but also the environment, if it's if it's a more toxic environment, or if it's a more controlling environment, those all need to start shifting to to allow the talent to be able to come through from those folks that we hire, because we want to bring them in and they are talented. And then we just try to put them in the box. So So those are some things definitely about the happiness factor, you know, that I've seen as well. So when you think about, you know, kind of these little these settings along the way, from an introverts perspective, what are some of the things that you've learned, you know, what are some of those aha moments? What are some of those things that you said, Well, I'm not gonna fit into that myth, like down bustin that all the way through, you know, what tell is share with us some of your thoughts there.

Stephen Tessitore 29:19
Yeah, yeah. When you when you do some, some discovery work, and when you do some, whatever that looks like, that could look like anything. I mean, someone could read a book and have all the answers. Because there's so much good material out there even just watching TED talks or listening to a podcast, you know, when you're doing this sort of discovery work you get you build up the courage to kind of try things, I think, and I think that's one of the first things that you know, that I would say is I'm not big on like, on like, cold turkey anything or like or like skipping steps, like I've always been somebody who's put things into steps and then follow that, you know, it just helps me it helps me kind of process so One of the first things is, is is showing up, you know, you don't get to as a as an introvert, you don't get to take time off, you don't get to use that sort of, you know, your introversion as a reason that you didn't show up. And this is something that is so critically important to understand is that, you know, you'll hear, you'll hear folks that will say, Well, you know, I'm an introvert, so I didn't come to the party, or I'm an introvert. So I didn't show it's funny, because it's so easy to look at it and say, You know, honestly, I know that I'm not going to have a good time, at the, we'll just use the party as an example, I'm not going to, I'm not going to have a great time at the party, because it's not how I get, you know, my energy, one of the mistakes that we make is we start to apply that thinking to things that we need to be at, we need to show up. And you know what, it's funny, because it doesn't mean because because you're an introvert that you can't show up and give the TED talk or the public speaking, like, it doesn't mean that, in fact, that's when I'm probably at my most comfortable from a skillset standpoint, it just means that I recovered differently. So one of the first things is that you you, you start to take some steps, and you say, Okay, I'm not, I'm no longer going to show up this way. Because it's not representing me. And I'm going to like, if you can't say, no, then it's time to say no to something, right. If your personality is to take all the things on, then it's time to learn how to say no, and you can start really small. So that's, that's the way that really, for me, it works, I start to take small steps, I get wins under my belt. I think one of the examples that I would give is, I used to talk a lot in meetings. And it was it was compensating for, you know, for not wanting to be quiet, not wanting to be, you know, an own sort of that, that observer, I'm actually much better as an observer and listener, but I have to discipline myself to do that. So I used to talk a lot. And I'm like, look in this in these next five meetings that are going to happen over the next three days, I'm not talking until the end, because the type of leader that I want to be is one that observes takes everything in, and then presents the way that that he feels he or she feels at the end, once I've learned everything, I'm not going to jump to conclusions, I'm not going to do those things, I'm not going to play those those roles anymore. So it can be as simple as just looking at one example where you're not showing up the way you want to, and just change that one. And that what happens then is it starts, of course, sort of snowball, and you start to then bring that into, you know, conversations with your boss, which can be really intimidating, are conversations with, you know, peers or colleagues. So, I would say, first, you don't get to not show up, you need to show up. Right, yeah. And then the second thing is, sew up the way that you want to show up and start small. And I think those are the things that those things that stand out to me, you know, right now in terms of that, that sort of my own development.

Angela McCourt 33:08
So, us being very similar, I think we have the same exact Myers Briggs and 16 personalities, I njf. A. And then also, you know, we both span the spectrum, mostly introverted, from an energy perspective, and also the way of working because I work in my head a lot. I like that, you know, I have really focused on trying to be more of a collaborator, as I've gotten in, you know, later in my career, and in life. But, you know, there are just a few things so that I still, I, you know, what I'm, I put my boundaries up. So one of them is, and I know, we're all supposed to be networking, and you know, all that good stuff, but I hate networking. And, and the reason is, is because, well, first of all, I don't like just how are you do, what's the weather like, you know, I, I literally have found and with, whether it's with customers, or just random people that I meet, when I connect with someone, I can sit there and talk to them for an hour, instead of like, five minute conversations with a bunch of people. And I know that about myself, and I know what I'm looking for, I want the value in that conversation. And there are people who are really good at work in the room and you know, connecting with lots of people. You know, that's just, it's just not who I am. You know, I just love this. But what I did find, especially when I was engaging with customers a lot, I had my go to customers, right? So they were easy. I'm like, Oh, I like that, that that person, I would have good conversations with them. I'm going to go talk to them, or I would piggyback with someone else. So I would I would tag team with, you know, someone else that I worked with, and we would go and hit until I felt more comfortable. Maybe then i or i stopped and started that deep content. And they moved on. But I think there are lots of tips and tricks to be able to show up. And, you know, have have your own way of showing up, but still show up and not just say, Well, I'm not into networking, so I'm not going to go, like, Do you have any other tips like that, that would help people? I, you know, are introverts, especially,

Stephen Tessitore 35:20
this is so good. That the, you know, networking is, as I am probably have a lot of similarities, I can certainly do it, you know, when needed, I find that like, I'm a lot better when I'm, when I'm the provider, as opposed to like the customer, like are the prospect of customer, right, as I show up better as the person who's got the thing, because I think that then sort of kicks in my my sales mentality, and I'm like, Alright, let's go get them, you know, and I can go into it, I turned it into a little bit of a game, I think that's one of the first things, it's just like saying, Look, I'm going to cover, you know, this entire room, I'm going to accept that not every conversation is going to go perfectly the way that I want it to. And I'm going to be okay, having a couple of moments that maybe are awkward, I'm just going to accept it ahead of time, right. Because if I can get over that, then then I can really walk into the room right in it. So it's one of the things where I've come to know myself and that there are certain things that I will do to avoid, you know, like the plague, like you're saying, like having like small talk with people, I don't care about that. It doesn't, it doesn't do anything for me. But I find that if I tell myself ahead of time, what it is that I'm going to be facing, I can kind of spend a couple minutes just getting over it. It's like, it's because it isn't the worst thing in the world. It's funny, because when you do go into the room, you will find that you will have a conversation that will make your whole night or that you'll make a connection that you'll have for the rest of your of your career. And is that not worth it? Like? Yeah, so it's a lot of this, like, it's a lot of this, like build up for the greater good. And I'm really good when I can see the big picture. So that's kind of me is like, I have to kind of work to see that ahead of time.

Angela McCourt 37:12
Oh, I love that. And so I mean, mindset is huge, right? I mean, that you you basically are telling yourself, like don't have any expectations, just go with the flow just be open. And I think that's where the a lot of the pressure comes from for folks, and especially those that do not like to network and you might be an extrovert that doesn't like to network out there. But it comes from the expectations that you think everything has to be impactful. Every conversation is going to have to be impactful when we set our mind that guess what expectations lead to disappointment. So I love that approach. And I'm going to I'm going to start using that as well. Yeah.

Stephen Tessitore 37:49
And it's, it's it's one that like it doesn't always work like you have to be discipline to you have to be disciplined to have that that sort of moment. That happens in the morning. Probably not right before you walk in the door. Right? But but you have to be disciplined to have that moment to say like, this is this is who I'm going to be, you know, and this is who I want to be like, I want to have long term connections with people, I want to make those deep connections. In order to get to the deep connection, you have to get over the awkward one, right. So it's this barrier, which is what we really want is on the other side of that door, it's just a matter of like psyching yourself up to go to go through it.

Angela McCourt 38:26
Yeah, definitely. Is there anything else that you can share about either the self discovery journey, as you're trying to determine if you're introverted or extroverted in the shownotes, I can put some quizzes for the audience as well as the 16 personalities. I love that test. I think it's a phenomenal kind of spin from the Myers Briggs test, and has been so helpful for me and then teams in the past that I've had to it as well. So we'll put that in the show notes. But is there anything else from you know, setting expectations for yourself? Not giving, you're letting yourself off the hook? If you're an introvert, for not showing up? Like, is there anything else that you would like to share with the audience that you found over time?

Stephen Tessitore 39:14
Yeah, I think I didn't really place very much value on. on personal development in in the past. And I think it is something that if you do lean more towards the introverted side, it's funny because you can, you can pick up the book and you can have a mentor right there that you know, that you'd never that you don't even have to go talk to. And so sometimes, like when we're really into like self learning and self discovery, and having some of these own these conversations in our head, which is a great thing. Sometimes a book can really be a catalyst for for those things to happen. So what I would say is not necessarily books, but what I would say is it's more it's more making sure that you're making or investments in yourself that you're consuming, you know, content that builds that builds that mindset up where, you know, you've got this, I'm not sure that it's confidence, but it's more so self awareness of saying like, you know, autobiographies have been have been great because it's like, look, you see all these introverts that have run like, Nike, you know, like, like that you see these introverts that have started these massive powerhouse companies, and it gives you the confidence to say, like, look, you know, I want examples, I want concrete evidence that I could be myself, so. So I think that's, that's profound for me. Because it's like a free, no investment mentor that I can take all the greatest stuff from, and sort of leave the rest behind. So I think investing in yourself as you're going through discovery, I think you want to reinforce those discoveries and think you want to say no, this is like, this is us, like, it's you don't have to feel pressure, because you've got, you know, these five people to look at, you know, and to look up to so that's something for me, that I that I think has really helped as well is just really being open to, to learning, you know,

Angela McCourt 41:10
totally. And that's right at the introvert, it's led anyway, right? So it's all about the knowledge and the wisdom and the internal, you know, churning of all of that. When you think about an extrovert engaging with an introvert, What's the best advice that you can give based on how you have really felt either appreciated, or you felt respected that I'm an introvert, and in you know, this extrovert, you know, definitely, like, really respected my preferences and how I renew myself, my energy, how I work, how I think, What's the best advice, you can give an extrovert on how they can engage with an introvert.

Stephen Tessitore 41:53
So good. But my, my wife is an extrovert in and we are a lot of times you find that right, that you're that our partners will be, you know, the opposite of us. And there's a reason for that, you know, that we ended up there. But, but I think, you know, communicating with, with either side, first of all, if there can be awareness, that's fantastic, you don't always have a situation where you know, you know, who you're talking to, but if there can be awareness, that's amazing. And companies that are helping us be more aware of that, as we walk into meetings, I love that I think that's such a great development. But what I would say is, if if, if all else fails, you know, listening is always our, our best friend. And, you know, I think that the evolution of, of sales is something that comes to my mind as a as an example is like, the salesperson as the as this, like talker is, is, is less and less valued, you know, a consultant is more and more valued as someone who is, is there to really understand, right? The best weapon we have for not understanding, you know, like not knowing if I'm talking to an introvert extrovert is, is to really seek understanding and, and to take some space. And for an extrovert that's, that's hard, sometimes it's hard to, because you got all these things, you know, they want to say you got all these important things. And so, you know, an introverted kind of weight. And some, some ambiverts, like us will match the energy of the person talking to us, and we'll find that we're talking just as much as they are. Because yeah, we can we can get there, you know, with them. But the biggest weapon that we all have for interacting together is to seek understanding. And there's the simple, you know, adage of, like, don't listen to respond, right. And this is something I have to remind myself of all the time, like, Oh, my God, what I've been, I've been just trying to, yeah, exactly. Been, like just trying to get my agenda across. So this is a tough one. But I think, you know, seeking understanding and seeing people as human, you know, with their own, you know, with their own struggles, the extrovert that we're interacting with, they have their own set of struggles, it's very real for them, that you know, that they're trying to get a lot of that out sometimes, and sometimes it's okay to just step back. So I think that's our, you know, our best weapon together is to is to always seek understanding, in a conversation.

Angela McCourt 44:24
That's awesome. Thank you so much for sharing. I hope that the audience really got a lot out of that. And that, you know, awareness is, is I think, the first part, you know, in just understanding and self discovery, and honestly, I told Stephen, before we started recording this that when he said that to me about I'm an extroverted introvert and I went wow, I think I am to, it literally was one of the most impactful things on my self discovery of my life. Like, I really feel that because we're energy and this is a big part of both introverts and extroverts is how we get our energy in If you understand that, you know, the whole world opens up for you and what your preferences are, and then you don't feel like you have to be a certain way. And you can just be yourself. It really is freeing. It's awesome. So thank you, Steven, I really, really appreciate you coming on. Well, I would love to have any kind of call outs that you'd like to share, including books, any companies, courses, organizations, nonprofits, or products, and then I will put the quiz and the 16 personalities, introvert extrovert quiz and 16 personalities in the show notes for everyone.

Stephen Tessitore 45:34
Yeah, that's a really good one. If you haven't taken it, just go take it, it takes it's super quick. And you you're worried that it's not going to capture your personality when you start to take it and then it perfectly captures your personality. So anybody who's listening should should take that quiz. I'm reading Essentialism by Greg Mckeown and it's a shoot of less Yeah. So. So this is making a big impact. And I was like, how's it gonna write an entire book on this? But yeah, it's, it's fantastic. And then the other one, I'll just pull it, it's because it's sitting right here is, is it's called Winning by Tim. Tim Grover. This guy was the trainer for Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan, both in their in their heydays, and it's living in my head. Like, it's like waking me up in the middle of the night. That's how Wow,

okay, I love that. Really, really good one. I think also, you know, just in terms of, you know, any anything else, I would just say? For sure, you know, let's talk about let's keep talking about leadership. You know, LinkedIn is a great way to connect with me with Angie. Like, I love the platform. And I love kind of sharing thoughts there. So yeah, if anybody wants to connect with me there, I would love that as

Angela McCourt 46:42
well. All right, I will add your LinkedIn handle in the show notes as well. That is so fantastic. Stephen, I know you're super busy. And I really, really appreciate you coming on. And I really looked forward to this episode for a long time now. So I'm so happy that you're able to join. And I really hope that you know, others, you know, really start to they get an aha moment from this. And I think they will. And also just the fact that maybe just some clarification for people around what is it an introvert what is an extrovert? And what does it mean preferences? What does that mean to them? And I think that'll be really good. And I think at a future state, I'll have an extrovert Come on, maybe I'll have I know, I'm going to have Ali come on anyway, your wife because I want her to do some others, but maybe she could be the extroverted side as well. That would be a really interesting, you know, dynamic for you, too. So yeah,

Stephen Tessitore 47:31
she would love that. No, this has been great. And I could talk about it for like three more hours. That's how you do that. It's that it's interesting. So yeah, thanks so much. Yeah,

Angela McCourt 47:39
exactly. Thank you. Thanks so much, Stephen. Appreciate it. Okay, bye bye.

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