Angela McCourt 0:00
Let's get ready for some serious shift. This is a podcast shifting Inside Out hosted by your quantum shifter Angela McCourt, we are diving into ways to empower and enable a quantum shift. Inspiring topics hacks and guest speakers take us on a journey around authenticity, challenging status quo, personal power and living a purpose filled life.

In this episode with Andrea Gott Associate Director in the telecommunications industry, we get into being decisive and how decisiveness is not just an end state that's easy to get to, but has so many layers and so many components, to be able to build your skills to get to that point, and how there is definitely an opportunity in companies to be able to support their colleagues on their journey, including not just empowering them to make decisions, but also being able to enable them so that they feel comfortable doing so. And it's a really great episode where we actually dive into a lot of the tips and tools that Andrea uses today with her own team as well as inside of her own company, to be able to build credibility and be able to use different newer tools and techniques and processes that help aid in building decisiveness in your team in yourself and your organization. So it's going to be a really great episode. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this episode. As you listen. You can find me on LinkedIn at Angie belts McCourt, Instagram at Angie underscore McCourt, or on Twitter at McCourt, Angie. I'd also love if you want to follow and leave a review on Apple podcasts. That would be really awesome. Thanks so much enjoy the episode. So without further ado, let's hear from Andrea.

Andrea, welcome to shifting inside out. I am so grateful to have you on this episode. And we are going to get right into it. So why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself?

Andrea Gott 2:26
Yeah, thanks for having me. Appreciate it. My name is Andrea guts, and I'm Associate Director in the telecommunication industry and been in the telecommunication industry for over 22 years, various leadership roles and responsibilities, from operations to marketing and everything in between. I have quite a few passions. Number one is I have four children. So that keeps me quite busy on the work life balance. And I'm sure we'll we'll dig into work life balance a little bit here as well. For me, my morning ritual is is the the extra time that I have between the push from school and getting everybody out the door to really think about motivation and what I want to accomplish from from that day specifically. So I really focus more on a day to day basis than a future Look, just due to the volume of activities that I've got going on.

Angela McCourt 3:27
That's awesome. How do you renew your energy because you sounds like you spend a lot of energy.

Andrea Gott 3:34
Um, you know, the kids give me energy. I when I do feel overwhelmed. The good news story now that we're kind of a work work from home is I can kind of walk away. And I think that that's the biggest thing that I've been able to really Institute since since COVID is stepping away taking a breather, especially when you get frustrated or overwhelmed. That you know, you do have the right to be able to say you know what, I can't attend that call right now. I've got you know, something going on. And, you know, I in the past I would have I would have accommodated. And you know, over the last few years, that is something that I really respect my mental health as well as, you know, things that are going on in my personal life that are going to take precedence.

Angela McCourt 4:22
That's awesome. So what is your guilty pleasure?

Andrea Gott 4:26
My guilty pleasure is this stupid game? It's an app. I just play it at night. I'm probably a little more addicted than not I'm not going to play the game but it's got like slots and stuff. But literally, that's my guilty pleasure. It just gives me like an extra 30-45 minutes to just chill out and and degress

Angela McCourt 4:49
Yep, turn the brain off, although it's still going. But it's not going on things that everybody else needs.

Unknown Speaker 4:56
Exactly. Exactly.

Angela McCourt 4:57
I love it. So one of the things that I have always found very admiring about you is your very decisive person. And I think that has held a lot of influence, whether it's in work or personal, where you have been able to earn trust, and you've been able to, you know, really build that credibility, because you're very decisive, you're very decisive person you have, you kind of know what you want, and you go for it. So I really would love to have a conversation with you about that there's so much to unpack I feel from that alone. And I think that it would be really great for you to share with our audience, a lot of the different tools and maybe your journey. Because we're not necessarily born decisive. There are a lot of components that make that up. But it would be great to hear your perspective on that.

Andrea Gott 5:55
Yeah, absolutely. And we'll let it know that I was not decisive from day one, I grew into that. So when you talk about a journey, I think that you know, when you start out in corporate America, we'll call it in, you know, you're in your early to mid 20s. And you're just trying to get your feet, you know, on the ground and trying to make a name for yourself, building up your brand credibility and your professional aperture, with with, you know, a fortune 15 company. And, you know, you try to kind of follow that suit, I would say probably about six years into my career is when I really started to take the helm of, you know, I'm pretty passionate about what I do, I'm fast, I'm a quick learner, I can get things done. And that's kind of that get it done mentality that decisive individuals have is, I could do it faster, and I can do it better. So let's get it going. And when when you start out kind of changing that paradigm from I would call it not necessarily an introvert but lack of confidence to this, you were the shield of confidence. And I've been told many times, like, you could literally jump up on on a call all day long. And never see a DAC and be able to present whatever is on there, and not skip a beat. And that's the confidence factor that you have to bring if you are going to be decisive. So fast forward seven or so years into my career, I was given a couple opportunities to to take some special projects and really, you know, go globally with them, and really put a thumbprint on them. And that's when I really built the credibility with my executives is being able to take something that literally was a thought, or an idea and take it to fruition and do even more than what I said that I was going to hope to do. And that's where you build that credibility and trust with your executives. And I fast forward, you know, 22 years now, every department and every position that I've had with my company, I have built that trust factor, where if I have an idea, or I want to build a team out of nothing, because I know that there's something there, and I build my and I pitch it to my leaders and I get the green light, like take it do it because they trust in how I'm going to be able to deliver on the business and I always do. So that's one of the things that you know, being a decisive person, it can be a positive and a negative because people don't think you're cocky. So you have to find that balance, especially a women leader. But you have to be able to let your your results and what you're actually signing up for shine more than then your confidence factor. Because I think when you stand in a group of you know, you're the black sheep and all of the other shapes are there. And you are the one that consistently regardless of who what level, you bring that decisiveness. You bring that confidence factor in that a game. People then aspire, and then you cosi, you have that balance, you have to be able to embody. And I think as long as you can articulate your story effectively, and let your results shine through, then you're going to be looked at as that trusted leader who's going to get shit done, and going to be really passionate about it along the way. And that's where I've been able to mold my career from.

Angela McCourt 9:26
It's fantastic. You talk about confidence a lot, which, you know, obviously, building credibility is a big part to having new opportunities, right, and people trusting you. What other components do you think or maybe characteristics do you think also feed into decisiveness?

Andrea Gott 9:46
You got to put in the work too, right? So I think that a lot of people, there's this fear factor of the more decisive you are, the more you take on responsibilities and that is true, you do You do want to own that because you want your thumbprint on it. But you also want to pull and carry along, other folks with you. And that's kind of the tribe you you bring with you whatever level you're at, and what other other department you're in. But you have to be selfless because, you know, what you're trying to achieve is not for your own personal gain, the personal gain is the trust factor. And and it's the attaboy Great, good job, but it's the what can we do to transform something that's been broken, or something that hasn't really gotten us to the level of revenue or stream or, you know, transformation that we've really wanted to achieve. So, you know, to me being passionate, and being selfless in regards to that, and then being able to carry kind of those key folks along the way that, you know, when I always talk about kind of, you want to level them up to the playing field, so that you can help them in their professional growth and their professional, you know, Chapter going forward. So I always say, you know, it's time for you to leave the nest, here's how we're going to do it. And we spend the next six months really kind of, they mimic and they mirror and they do a demo, which is a day in the life of and they understand what I say how I say it the stories that I tell the articulation that you have to have, and then the homework you have to do, because it's not just you know, Hey, Andrea knows everything. And you know, that's why she makes the decisions that she does. She does her homework does her research, she sees what's out from an industry perspective, what the competition looks like, and then being comfortable with making mistakes. I think that's probably the last thing I'll say on this is I'm okay if I make a mistake, or I'm okay, if it fails. Because if I set the proper expectations that I'm just going to try this and let's test it out. And you know, if I do a minimal viable product, it's no no like if if paid paid up to pet pay to play, for example. There's nothing that's kind of coming out of out of our pocket in the sense of, I'm not spending anything if I don't get anything, so why not test the waters, and being able to confidently go to a CFO to say, Hey, we've not done this before, this is could be a brand new stream of business that we want to embark upon. And I'm okay with this, because I'm building it as such that there are guardrails, and that there are some some, you know, some limitations in the sense that we have risk factor. And, you know, those are the things that you have to be able to articulate in your story, when you're trying to get something to go through the stages.

Angela McCourt 12:37
Now, as far as a couple comments you made about, you know, being very fast, being able to get things done, obviously, using your resources is a big, you know, I would say activity action skill. But also, I mean, you have to be organized, what other things would you say kind of are your strengths there?

Andrea Gott 12:58
Yeah, cross functional collaboration, critical, critical, you can't get something done from A to Z, especially being in a matrix organization that my my organization is in, probably over the last few years. It used to be you know, you handled everything from soup to nuts, and you know, you got it done, and nobody else stood in the way from you getting that done and achieved. But in a matrix organization, you have to lean on your your partners, and you have to build those relationships. And you know, the one thing that I will tell you, I do this, it's it's just a little tip. And it goes a long way when you ask for favors. And sometimes you do have to ask for favors in corporate America. But it's it's really, how can I help you. And it may not have anything to do with what you guys are partnering on in any given moment. But if they have something that they're overwhelmed, or they need help with, asking for, for you to pick up some of their slack, even when you don't have anything going on with them, and being able to effectively take something on or partner with them. Or even just sending a little note, hey, I'm thinking about you. Hopefully I've you know, uneventful day, when you do ask for those, hey, I need a favor, I promise you 100% of the time and I tell this to my team all the time. If you build solid foundational relationships, you will always get them in return. And that is how you become successful. That is how you are able to get things over the goal line in a very fast and efficient manner.

Angela McCourt 14:28
Yeah, I used to mentor folks on that's investing in your time but in others, and taking that extra time, whether it's five minutes or 15 minutes or an hour even saves you so much churn in the future, because they're going to just jump on whatever you need help with when you need it, instead of back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, right? So it's so important to invest. And then also by the way, you can tap into them for ideas themselves because especially if they're in a different area, they have a different viewpoint of the process or of the company or the customer? And it's always great to be able to, you know, tap tap on them just for a different perspective to which is awesome. I love it. Yeah, I think so now. Yeah, go ahead. No,

Andrea Gott 15:12
I was just gonna say I think that that that's also you know, when you're when you're in a leadership capacity you have those kind of mentors mentees that you lean on from a professional, broader aspect of you know, how do I continue to gain sponsors and what have you. But I think the other component of it is, when you're trying to effectively enforce change, coming together in a collective forum. And pulling them along the way helps you get things over the goal line as well. So it's also being able to rally the troops so to speak, when you're working with a cross functional group that you know that things have to get have to have to get done in a timely fashion or what have you, and being able to rally them ahead of time and saying, Hey, here's what's going to happen, here's what I need your help with. And here's where we may run into some bottlenecks. And here's what I'm hoping we can overcome.

Angela McCourt 16:07
Now, as far as bottlenecks, that's a good one, I love that positive phrasing of it. We can't we can call it politics, we can call it bureaucracy. And a lot of very large and very old companies, you can find still a lot of old stagnated processes and or broken processes as well, like, when when you're dealing with bureaucracy, and you're trying to empower and enable a team to be decisive, like, what are some of the key things that you've done to kind of coach them through that and encourage them to be decisive themselves? Yeah,

Andrea Gott 16:45
the biggest thing is articulation, you have to be able to know what you want, and going to the next level, or pulling in folks that are going to be decision makers, if you're not articulating exactly what you're looking for. And that is from whether you're going to do a test, whether you're going to execute a campaign, whether you're going to partner with a new co marketing partnership, you have to be very decisive, and articulating what you're trying to accomplish. And I really like to use when you think about how you're going to get through bureaucracy in the political realm is, you know, what you're testing and what you're trying to accomplish. So what's the hypothesis? So what, like, what am I going to accomplish? And what do I think I'm going to get from an outcome perspective? Who are my enablers? You know, what are those those extended folks that I need to have them rally with me, and that may be reprioritizing, system enhancements that may be reprioritizing, funding, DTS, work, all of those. So being very articulate and decisive on what you're trying to accomplish goes a long way. Otherwise, you're just gonna be labor, going back and forth until someone says, So what do you want? Like, what are you looking for? So I always say, be ready with your with your, your, your specific story, and have back it with numbers, because data drives a lot of decision making associated with it. And then data drives a lot of decision making associated with not doing something as well, if the resource lift is too much, and based on the output that we may get, or may not. So I think that's a big one relationships, just because we have bureaucracy and political roadblocks and, and they're put in place. And that's the one thing that I think, you know, coming from, I always say, an external hire coming from a small startup or a small, you know, vendor, you don't have a lot of that. But when you're in a multi billion dollar company, there are guardrails that are put in place for specific reasons, and you may not like it, they could be better, but you have to be able to work within the means. And then if you identify a gap, raise your hand and be that that that instead of being a naysayer be that one that's going to say let's fix the process. How can we make it more efficient? How do I pull in all the stakeholders to fix that this the gaps that we have in our business? And, you know, I think that that's a that's a big one that I really push on the team don't come to the table with complaints come to the table with resolution, and it is critical. You cannot complain if you don't have a solution. If you have a solution, and we can get to an end state that's going to make lives better, it's going to make things faster. Bring it to the table, let's let's solve it, but don't come and complain.

Angela McCourt 19:35
Mm hmm. Yes, exactly. And but that's interesting, because, you know, there's this sense of fear of failure, but I think even more so for people who might be hesitant to bring their ideas forward. Is this sense of embarrassment or humiliation if it fails, right, so, you know, I think there are different ways to kind of overcome that mindset. Maybe it's through process. I mean, do you have a specific process that you have your team run through? Yeah, that actually can help break that down.

Andrea Gott 20:09
Yeah, I actually was given an opportunity a few years ago to create and incubate a war room and in our business, and you know, if anybody's not familiar with the War Room, essentially real time marketing, etc. But what it allows us for is the flexibility to fail, it's the flexibility to know that we're going to be agile, we're going to work in an MVP space, we're going to work fast. And we're going to work diligently. And it's okay, if we use duct tape and bubble gum, which is my little say, you can either, you know, we got to be able to make it work to get to what we're trying to accomplish from an hypothesis perspective. But it doesn't have to be perfect, as long as we can have clean data. And that what we're trying to accomplish, we accomplish within that. So sprinting, being able to be speed oriented, and allowing us to at the end of the day reassess. And we either optimize, and we reevaluate and may make some shifts to a different test or an innovative idea. Well, we scrap it, and we say, let's move on to another backlog test idea. And we continue to dig into that, where I find companies lack is they stick to the same status quo, which is Bau all day, every day. And if you don't, you know, create a forum and emotion for agile and speed testing and innovation, and an incubation where it's okay to fail. And you know, I talk about a lot of pay to play a lot of optimization, you're never going to get ahead because you're going to still look at the same Bau efforts and the same Bau tactics that are going to get you the same results.

Angela McCourt 21:50
Mm hmm. Yeah, that's amazing. And I think too, you know, setting the expectation failures expected, sets the mindset to the teams to say, bring it forward, bring your ideas forward, do you tend to get more more participation in like new, innovative ideas? Or is there still a challenge breaking through that mindset and limiting beliefs around fear of failure?

Andrea Gott 22:16
Yeah, I think what we've been able to do is we call it a jam board session. So it's a free forum, where ideas flow, whether it's a process improvement, whether it's a system improvement, and what we're able to do is in this forum, when you bring in all different forms of of skill sets, as well as different forms of departments, from sales to operations, to marketing, etc, transformation, finance, and what have you. What it allows us to do is kind of parse out what's what's kind of long term kind of roadmap, you know, system integrations, things of that nature. And then what are some of the short term quick wins, that we could either optimize, we could make, you know, quick edits, we could test the waters and something that we've not done before. And that's where we take those into the war room. And we do a ton of agile testing with regards to that some of the Bau stuff, you know, hey, I want to fix my credit, or hey, I want to fix a tool that that's things that are going to have to you know, go through the standard process but quick wins agile, you know, shifting in in segments, tactics, optimizing retargeting evaluating where I could pull a net new prospects that I've not done before, in a very quick turnaround, you know, so so agile testing and speed to market is two to three weeks, from from inception and ideation to execution of your test. And a lot of times, I think that's probably the bigger it's not the failure. It's the speed in which an employee has to articulate rally a team from from not only a core team, but also an extended team that's going to help them get it done. But I think the biggest thing that is the hinderance in any corporation is every department has to be have a seat at the table, they all have to realize that agile testing and innovation and being able to be a growth accelerator, that that takes precedence and if we identify a successful opportunity or successful test to scale, it takes prioritization and that is, you know, through means of, you know, work energy, effort and dollars.

Angela McCourt 24:26
Right, right. Yeah. And I think to have you found with this approach and using agile testing, because I totally know every single word you're saying around agile and Diana Weber, if she's listening to this podcast would just be like, yay. She's one of my dear friends and an agile agile expert and total believer in it and a total believer in it. But what I found in other corporations, including higher education is it takes a little bit to get the executor There's to trust, that whole process to trust these teams forming on on the fly, basically, to be able to test and then bring to the table. When you talk, you mentioned storytelling storytelling is definitely, I think, a great gift, a wonderful gift to be able to bring the picture in a way that includes all of the components. That's not just fluff, but it includes the facts and numbers that includes the outcome that that is, you know, being sought after, what have you found to be really critical in, you know, feeding up into the organization into the executives, to get their belief system to shift and to trust, and to be open to this process in this approach? What have you found storytelling to play a role in that?

Andrea Gott 25:49
Yeah, I think even before storytelling, I think that to get a sponsor, because that's what you need is you need a stakeholder executive sponsor that is willing to understand the motions of agile and have, you know, this kind of innovative speed to market and in an infancy stage, so to speak. But the biggest thing is prioritizing what you want to test with the biggest revenue outcomes, because, you know, they're gonna compete against other projects that are in the works from, you know, capital dollars, or operational op, X dollars, etc. So, being able to say, hey, if this is successful, this outcome could generate X, millions in revenue, and being able to, you know, if I need to press on a stakeholder in such that, that it has meaningful impact to the business, a lot of them I call the below the line optimized efforts, most of those are relationship built. So it may not drive a ton of revenue, it drives more efficiency, or effectiveness or streamline better customer experience, etc. Those are things that I think we're able to effectively handle, you know, below the line in the sense that, you know, there's not a need for this notion of, I need to rally, you know, compensation or finance or what have you, I've got to go to the to the well, for additional dollars, storytelling is critical, I say it's is it's up there or at parity in in, you know, presentation skills. You don't even have to have a presentation or a deck to have effective storytelling. And you have to have those key components. Why is it important? What are we trying to get, and you talked a little bit about having the, I call it double clicking, but it's having those extra nuggets that aren't on the page, that aren't what they know. And being able to let them hear you talk about those extra data points, or insights that you've done your homework on, that you can effectively tell that end to end story. Because you're in a matrix organization doesn't mean you tell the story of just you and your matrix organization and what your team actually delivers. In a matrix organization as an effective storyteller, you have to be able to tell the end and I say, thread it through, you have to be able to tell the entire story. How does it How does it you know, how does a sales rep experience this? What will happen in the customer side of the house? What will it look like in media or on Comm? What does it gonna do to generate XYZ millions or dollars associated with it? How can we save money? How do we make it faster, and you have to be able to thread that through to have an effective story and be an effective storyteller. It's not just about what you know, in your own space, it's knowing everybody else's space and threading it through so that you are the only person that can actually tell that story. And that's when you actually get more buy in. Because one they trust, like, wow, you've done your homework, you know, everything, every component of every department that is reliant on getting this to be you know, from zero to 100. And you having that one voice, they're paying attention to you so much more than saying, well, that's not really my department. That's not really my space. Let me hand it off to Angie. And and you lose those fragmented moments because you're not able to articulate your story effectively. cross pollinating. Mm hmm.

Angela McCourt 29:15
That was like a really amazing sum. And I think that when we talk about, you know, kind of decisiveness and how all of that plays, when you break down decisiveness, it's not just about making the decision. And it's not just about having confidence to make a decision. There's so much more that goes into it. And you know, whether it's having the process, understanding how to navigate barriers, building those cross collaboration, relationships, understanding not just, you know, summing or theorizing on the big picture but truly understanding how everything works together. And then being able to build that story around it plus, doing your research and, and having the numbers. I think this is a really big area of opportunity for So many, and you know, kind of breaking through just the confidence piece breaking through the wait a minute, how do I even get started? You know, what, how am I? Is my title okay for me to make a decision, right? Because this is one of the one of the limitations that I found with a lot of people as well. And I'm sure you have, you know, how do you actually help them from not just an empowerment perspective, like, you are empowered to make this decision, you are empowered to drive this initiative, you are empowered to create the story and take it forward to these people. Or you're empowered to go share results, you know, with these people, how do you enable them to do that as well? Because that is one of the biggest challenges that I see in corporate America.

Andrea Gott 30:45
Yeah, I think the biggest thing is they it's interesting, I'm a big one on I don't care what your title is, like you are a leader in this business, you're expected to deliver on the business, and I want to see innovation and strategic thought process anywhere and everywhere. I don't need to send an email for someone to approve something that that is complete 100% empowerment, I think the biggest thing is trying to distill the vulnerability. When you think about some folks who may be an introvert who may not have had exposure in past roles, or past companies, when you get into that vulnerability, and being able to distill out what that vulnerability is, Is it lack of confidence? Or is it lack of knowledge? Because I think those are the two things that you have to be able to separate that out. vulnerability and lack of, of knowledge. Well, that's something we've got to work towards from a coaching and developing perspective. So that that takes a little bit longer lift in regards to that. But vulnerability in regards to confidence, that's when we have to go back and I do a lot of things. One is, I do a brand assessment on them. What do they think about themselves? If if you weren't in the room? What would other people think about you? If your CEO is in the elevator with you? What would you say? And it's kind of interesting to hear some of the I'll call it vanilla, or, or lack of, of confidence that they bring to the table? Well, I'm working on this project, and you know, I'm doing this and, and I take whatever they say, and I literally, let me reword it as if I was saying it on your behalf, and they go, Oh, my God, you sound like you're just amazing. And I said, But you are amazing. You're just not articulating it the way you should to any leader in the business. And so, you know, I think the confidence factor comes with how do you articulate your story? And how are you able to really put in, when you're talking to a specific, whether it's a lateral employee, appear a leader, executive, you know, anybody, you have to understand what would matter to them based on what you're doing today. And if you can't articulate that at any level, then you're not doing yourself justice, but getting through the vulnerability. So either upskilling them, because it's a lack of knowledge. And then and then the confidence factor associated with that. I think, once you get through those two components, it's really about the empowerment. So a lot of times I'll see that they feel empowered, but they don't know what to say particularly or they don't know that they can literally just pick up the phone or send a you know, an instant message or whatever the case may be. So I kind of help shepherd and fault foster that a few times. Once they get to Oh, I see how you said it, or Oh, I see how you did that. Then all they'll ask me again. And I'll say you need to figure it out. Let me know if I can help but you need to figure it out. Either look for other resources or peers or use previous experience to kind of get them to I call it sink or swim a little bit. Nobody, nobody gave me that. That opportunity. I've always had to jump in, you know, both feet learn new roles with no playbook. There's no guidelines, you just figure it out. And I think that that sink or swim a little bit, although people don't like that. It does allow them to gain more confidence and then figuring it out on their own, then you continuously fostering or sheltering them, and doing it for them. Because you're never going to upskill your teams, you're never going to get them from a professional growth perspective to move to the next level. Without really embarking on you got to figure it out on your own sometimes. And yeah, you may get told no, but next time, let's figure out how to get to a yes. And that's where I can help foster that that relationship.

Angela McCourt 34:38
Hmm. That's so good. And I think too, it's easy to just say, well, you're empowered to make that decision, you're empowered to, you know, send that communication, but if they don't feel that confidence if they don't understand, you know, kind of maybe even some skills behind that that they're needing from an enablement perspective. They are never ever going to truly feel empowered, they'll always have fear tied to that action. So I love the fact that you're doing that I think so many more leaders can really just kind of take a moment to think about the overused word of empowerment, because everybody wants it. And everybody says they're doing it. But really think about what does that mean? How do I empower for success, the empowerment for successes, including enablement. So now, how do I enable them to actually feel empowered and to be empowered. So I love that it's very good. The one thing that I think is really interesting, around decisiveness and I had gotten into this a bit, you know, deep into my career where I became the decision person, and I was like, wait a minute, you know, this is I don't want to make all the decisions. But what I did realize is that it was a very complex situation, it was a very evolving opportunity wise situation. And so I felt like as the leader, I had to make a lot of those decisions. But I also realized that it had a lot to do with control, which I do have issues with control. So I think, you know, when when I think about the dynamic of how control, which is a fear based, you know, totally, it's a fear based action that plays a role in the habit of making all the decisions, the habit of, you know, kind of just moving through this robotic motion of you know, why don't I'm setting my sights, and I'm just going to take it to the end. Like, what are your thoughts on how that impacts the ability for the team to then grow, develop and the impact it has on you? Because now you're taking on so much as well? Like, what have you found in your journey? Yeah, well, I

Andrea Gott 36:47
think it's, it's funny, because the one thing that I would tell you is, the more decisive and control you are, the more even leaders say, Well, what do you think, Andrea? And I'm like, Well, you're the boss, like, you know, you. But because of the knowledge and I take that to heart, you have to know what you're talking about. And being able to have that passion and that desire, and then the decisiveness to get it done attitude. That's when you have, you know, even executives at all level go, what do you think, and that's, that's a positive thing. So that's, that's the positiveness out of having control and being decisive is you built the trust and the accountability, that they know that what you're saying is like the gospel, even though you could be wrong, right, but they believe that it's the gospel. I think the negative to your point is, because you're in control, because they know you're at this, get it done attitude, you've got this passion. And you you don't have to wait for anyone, you do pick up a lot more than you probably should. And even out of your scope of I mean, like, I pick up stuff that's not even in my realm. But because I know, they know, I can get it done. They know that I'll figure it out. And they know that even if I don't know about it, I'll find someone that can help me get it over the goal line, you end up taking on a ton more work. And I use work loosely, but it's effort. And when you look at you know, my career over over the time, I was probably would say I was 90% Work 10% life, probably up to the last I'll say five to seven years. And even the last couple years, I have been more 5050. And my family definitely takes precedent. Regardless, I would be on vacations, taking calls and doing things and you know, that does not bode well for your energy and your excitement to want to do more. And I don't mind putting in the time, I don't mind putting in the effort working long hours, if I can see what success will look like, and the outcome associated with it. But then there's this balance of I think taking advantage of is probably a good phrase where your leaders know who to lean on, you could have a team of 100. And if you have three people that could shine and that do triple the work. You're going to lean on the three people every single time and what ends up happening is you get burned out.

Angela McCourt 39:33
Yep, totally. Yeah, I found one of the things I would say I preached a few years during our transformation, my transformation leadership roles was that tap into the people who aren't your right hand or your left hand like give someone else a chance to because not only are you burning them out, but you have a lot more talent that are ready to blossom, and you need to give them a shot and give them A chance, I think that's a great call out for all leaders, it becomes very easy honestly, to just depend on those same three people. And that's not a good leader. That's just a habitual. That's a habitual approach. Yeah. And I think one it will burn them out. Yeah, I

Andrea Gott 40:14
think the one thing I'll say and just the gap though, is when you have those that are in that small universe that you lean on all the time, you may have a few trick trick lawyers who are ready and and who are at the bench and ready to go, but the majority of them lack upskilling. And the problem is, is because you're leaning on these handful of folks time and time again, they don't have the fortitude at the time to invest in their bench, and to be able to upskill them so that you have this robust team that didn't, you could go to anyone, you're going to have those that are going to just do the day to day stuff. And that's okay. But they lack the skill set to be effective storytellers, they lack the skill set to look for the right data points, they lack the skill set to understand their audience up, down, sideways, and they lack the skill to have effective partnerships. And if you don't have the time, because you're focused on these things that you're always that go to, there's hindrance, and it actually bleeds into a broader organization. Because you kind of resegregate your your segregating out, so to speak, your teams and these like small, you know, we'll call it less than 10% of your total organization, are these ones that your elite, these are your leaders, these are your leading folks in a performance perspective. And then 80% of the universe is lacking something that's not getting them to that 10%. And unfortunately, because you've got that 10% Just running like crazy, nobody's there to help lift the 80% to get to that 10%. And what ends up happening is they just run on on kind of this autopilot, and you get an output of autopilot.

Angela McCourt 42:06
Yeah, so it's a cyclical site, somebody. Yeah. And just because somebody is really good at what they do, doesn't mean they're happy at what they do. So at some point, they could say, I'm out. Yeah. That as well,

Andrea Gott 42:18
you do. And I think you risk it as well, when you think about, I think a lot of people thrive on a couple things. One, obviously financial, I mean, that's a given. But the other one is reward and recognition. And, and then it's also, I would say the last thing, and I think it's the most impactful thing that companies lack is one is recognizing the knowledge and the aperture of the business, I feel like you know, it's kind of like with anything, people coming in as fresh blood, get a lot more financials, you know, stimulus, so to speak, then those that have been loyal, and those that have this knowledge base that is so hard to come by these days. And then given the those folks that are doing those efforts, a shot at that next level. And I feel like that's probably where when you talk about them out, the burnout happens when there's something that's not going to happen in the future for them. And if it's a cyclical cycle, that's when they say, I'm done, because I'm not getting rewarded in a promotion, and a financial, and a special project or anything of that nature. And that's when you get burnout, and you get frustration, and it can it can just be a disease in your in your organization if it's not taken

Angela McCourt 43:38
care of. Yeah, totally. Oh, that's awesome. This was a fantastic conversation. Thank you so much. As we close out, I wanted to see if you had any call outs that you'd like to share. So whether it's a company or products, books, courses, or nonprofits,

Unknown Speaker 43:55
go ahead and share your space. Wow.

Angela McCourt 43:57
Um,

Andrea Gott 43:58
yeah, I mean, I actually have been reading this amazing book. It's called Love your gifts. And

Unknown Speaker 44:09
I've got it right here.

Andrea Gott 44:10
I know, you can't see my screen. But I actually had been I actually did the audio and I started reading it. It's really intuitive. I just want to thank you for that. You know, the one thing that as tenured leaders in our business, a lot of times you can read books, or you hear you see things on the web, and it's it's all bullshit, excuse my language, but it's, it's what you want them to hear. And it's not real things that you actually can take and Institute in your day to day and I just want to commend you on that, that you kept it real. You know, you're able to then take those innovative ideas and hopefully somebody who's listening to this podcast, took a couple nuggets as well. And that's what we want, right? We want a couple of these little nuggets here and there on what we can do to improve what we can do to leverage and expand our Are you no knowledge and in our confidence in us being not only decisive, but us being able to step outside the box and go, This is how I want myself to be looked at and be known for. So thank you for that.

Angela McCourt 45:16
Yeah, that's awesome. Thank you. Appreciate the book.

Unknown Speaker 45:19
Yeah, of course, of course.

Angela McCourt 45:23
Anything else?

Andrea Gott 45:24
Yeah, no, I mean, I just, you know, number two things on my mind always in is, you know, suicide prevention. So anything related to suicide prevention, love, love, love, my, my nephew pass. So anything and everything related to that, and, you know, cardiac, cardiac awareness, cardiac, Heart Month, anything associated with that. I lost a brother in law associated with that. So those will be my two.

Angela McCourt 45:54
Oh, awesome. Thank you. Thank you so much. All right. Well, thank you for joining us. I know you're super busy. And I really, really appreciate you sharing your story and your tips. And it was very, very insightful. So thank you so much, Andrea.

Unknown Speaker 46:07
You're welcome. Thank you so much for having me. Awesome.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai